Hi, Jim

Are you still thinking of booking this trip?

Or has anyone else here booked it?

Best wishes

Di

A message for Jayli if he is reading this.

Hi, Jim

Are you still thinking of booking this trip?

Or has anyone else here booked it?

Best wishes

Di

Hello Di,

Well, with a two-year, multi-entry visa, I am certainly going to go back to China at least once if not twice before it expires. Having done - and thoroughly enjoyed - the corresponding TS trip to Tibet, I know that I can cope with high altitudes (we reached 5030m.) so a return to Tibet is definitely on the agenda - but I am still thinking about the JY trip.

Although not as good as the TS itinerary, the "Roof of the World" trip is attractive and would conveniently fill in some of the gaps in my previous visits to China (and Tibet), so going in September is a distinct possibility. I am not sure about doing the HKG add-on again, as I should probably want to do this independently and for a full week.

However, it does require some thought: it doesn't include Everest Base camp, which I should like to visit; it looks rather expensive, with three of the four excursions being optional ones at extra cost - particularly the trip to see the pandas: why else would one go to Chengdu?? The itinerary also involves a direct flight to Lhasa (at 3650m.) from Chengdu (at sea level?), requiring some rapid acclimatisation (the TS itinerary was so much better in this respect, with a gradual ascent via Zhongdian at 3300m.).

I am also wondering about the flights: KLM is fine (I used KLM extensively for business travel) - but I wonder what the chances are of a late change of airline to China Air via Beijing or (more likely) China Eastern via Shanghai: nothing wrong with either airline, but it would make for a long journey without a short stay in the respective city. Also, I have a large number of air miles with KLM, which I should like to use to upgrade to Business Class, but I doubt whether I could use them - has anyone reading this managed to use air miles to upgrade a flight on a JY holiday?

Ideally, I should like to see how the May departure goes (I know someone who is hoping to go then), but that might be leaving it a bit late.

Jim

I would love to be able to book this trip, but unfortunately I can't!

Regards

Jaya

Thank you for your reply.

I have wanted to go to Tibet for years so this particular tour really appealed to me.

Seeing the pandas in Chengdu will be wonderful and although I am not  too bothered about going to China I do want to see the pandas and go to the Li River for the scenery and cormorants. You kindly put up a post about the cormorant fishermen when I first said that I had booked this trip.

It was good to hear that you enjoyed the TS version of the tour.

Hopefully I will also be OK with the altitude, despite quick acclimatization, as I was fine in Peru. I have heard that altitude sickness can affect you on a subsequent high altitude trip even if it hasn't on a first trip.

My biggest fear is travel sickness when on very windy, high altitude mountain passes. Apparently if one is prone to motion sickness it can be exacerbated when in a high altitude. Have been reading, on Trip adviser, about some of the fantastic scenery we will be travelling through. I think on one day we travel along 3 very high mountain passes.

I haven't booked the add-on to Hong Kong.

Regarding the first departure in May, I believe two of the ladies who were with us in Borneo have booked it.

Hadn't better say who they are, had I. Confidentiality Uhmmm.

Now regarding Everest Base Camp. When I went to Nepal with TS in 2010, 4 of our group took a helicopter flight, if I have remembered correctly, to Everest Base Camp. Pretty certain it was Everest, if it wasn't it was Annapurna Base Camp. Cost around £200 each. Not much to see there but they enjoyed snowballing each other. I just did an early morning flight alongside Everest and also went in a 2 seater yellow plane with a mad Russian pilot (he took Michael Palin in a microlight, when Michael did his Himalayas tour) around Fishtail (Machhapuchhre). I was a tad scared to say the least.

These flights were from Pohkara and now JY are offering Nepal  including Pohkara again, the flights may be available.

I am hoping there will be a review or two written after the first Roof of the World tour!

Kind regards

Di

Thank you for your reply.  I know you can't book this one as you will be going to Kenya in September.

I am sure you will have a super time there and I will look forward to reading your review on it. I have had 2 super holidays in Kenya!

We certainly can compare notes on your CR trip and my Namibia trip end of march or early April!

Best wishes

Di

I wonder if your mad Russian pilot was the same one I went up with in Pokhara.  We should have gone up in 3 microlights, but one was out of action so I went up in the little 'yellow plane'.  I didn't realize what a mad flight I had had until we landed and the other two people said my pilot was crazy and they wished they had gone in the 'plane' instead of the microlights as we had gone higher and faster than they did and it looked like I was having more fun.  I can remember thinking I was going to fall out of the door every time he banked round and him telling me I was O.K., but the rest of the time I was too busy taking photos of the scenery.  Oh happy memories, I loved Nepal.

Avocet

Great to hear about your experience on the little yellow plane. It probably was the same pilot. I am quoting from Michael Palin's "Himalaya" book now, when he was on the microlight "Tucked in behind a Russian pilot with a big Seventies moustache who speaks only in thumbs-up signs... I experience pure terror for the first half-hour" He was my pilot. Yep, a couple of the microlights were grounded when we were there, too. As we watched them being reassembled and wings being put on we were told we could wait for them to be ready. at that stage we thought the yellow plane was safer.

I did eventually take a few photos after initial terror wore off, then I felt like a female James Bond. Loved Nepal and went back overland via India with Saga in 2012.

Don't know whether you saw "Flying to the ends of the Earth" on TV, it was either last year or 2015. Channel4. Arthur Williams who was doing the series, in the first episode, went to Pokhara and went on the little yellow plane with the same pilot.

Happy travelling, wherever you are going next

Kind regards

Di

Hi Jim

Thank you for your reply.

I have wanted to go to Tibet for years so this particular tour really appealed to me.

Seeing the pandas in Chengdu will be wonderful and although I am not  too bothered about going to China I do want to see the pandas and go to the Li River for the scenery and cormorants. You kindly put up a post about the cormorant fishermen when I first said that I had booked this trip.

It was good to hear that you enjoyed the TS version of the tour.

Hopefully I will also be OK with the altitude, despite quick acclimatization, as I was fine in Peru. I have heard that altitude sickness can affect you on a subsequent high altitude trip even if it hasn't on a first trip.

My biggest fear is travel sickness when on very windy, high altitude mountain passes. Apparently if one is prone to motion sickness it can be exacerbated when in a high altitude. Have been reading, on Trip adviser, about some of the fantastic scenery we will be travelling through. I think on one day we travel along 3 very high mountain passes.

I haven't booked the add-on to Hong Kong.

Regarding the first departure in May, I believe two of the ladies who were with us in Borneo have booked it.

Hadn't better say who they are, had I. Confidentiality Uhmmm.

Now regarding Everest Base Camp. When I went to Nepal with TS in 2010, 4 of our group took a helicopter flight, if I have remembered correctly, to Everest Base Camp. Pretty certain it was Everest, if it wasn't it was Annapurna Base Camp. Cost around £200 each. Not much to see there but they enjoyed snowballing each other. I just did an early morning flight alongside Everest and also went in a 2 seater yellow plane with a mad Russian pilot (he took Michael Palin in a microlight, when Michael did his Himalayas tour) around Fishtail (Machhapuchhre). I was a tad scared to say the least.

These flights were from Pohkara and now JY are offering Nepal  including Pohkara again, the flights may be available.

I am hoping there will be a review or two written after the first Roof of the World tour!

Kind regards

Di

Hello again Di

> I am not  too bothered about going to China

At least go to the southern areas (especially Yunnan) where there are over 50 minority ethnic groups which provide a fascinating diversity: ethnically, this is in fact Tibet, it's just not part of the TAR. One of the highlights was a concert by a Naxi orchestra, where the average of the musicians was over 80. You obtain some idea of the diversity here:

http://tinyurl.com/jt7lmv6  should work)

> Hopefully I will also be OK with the altitude, despite quick acclimatization, as I was fine in Peru.

Peru presents no real challenge as the highest place of interest, Cusco, is only 3400m. (slightly more than Zhongdian - "Shangri-La" - at about 3300m., where none of us had any problems,) - higher than Machu Picchu at 2400m. I think most of the problems in Peru are caused by flying from sea level directly to Cusco and then not acclimatising properly.

At no time did any of our party - or anyone else I saw anywhere in Tibet - have any problems with the altitude, even up to 5000m. This may of course be due to our slow ascent via Zhongdian. Several of our party bought herbal remedies there, and our TM used acetazolamide (Diamox as was) as she had had problems on her first visit, and one lady in her late 60s mentioned that she had had a few dizzy spells, but they in no way stopped her from full participation in the group's activities. As I had been concerned about AMS, I took acetazolamide tablets with me but never used them. Our TM reckoned that the altitude problems ewre overrated and, on my experience, I am inclined to agree with her.

> My biggest fear is travel sickness when on very windy, high altitude mountain passes. Apparently if one is prone to motion sickness it can be exacerbated when in a high altitude. Have been reading, on Trip adviser, about some of the fantastic scenery we will be travelling through. I think on one day we travel along 3 very high mountain passes.

Yes, the main route between Lhasa (3650m.) and Gyantse (4000m.) crosses three mountain passes, all over 4000m., as I recall: the first by the beautiful Yamdrok lake, the second (the highest at 5030m.) at the foot of the Kharola Glacier) and the third by a reservoir (almost as beautiful as Yamdrok). We stopped for some time at each of these without any problems, and I don't recall any winds, nor do I recall anyone suffering from motion sickness - the weather (in the first week of November) was almost perfect, with sunshine and clear blue skies, so it will presumably be as good if not better in September.

You can get an idea of the fantastic scenery and weather here:https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ar2uNgmgDhnChG3sQk-Ow7dhBXP2 (http://tinyurl.com/jguqu59) [N.B. this should play in full screen, but it contains a video clip of the famous debating session at Sera Monastery, so requires a large bandwidth, and may be better downloaded before viewing]

> I haven't booked the add-on to Hong Kong.

But do go some time, it's a fascinating place:

https://1drv.ms/v/s !Ar2uNgmgDhnChGqd-NchC25PNecV (http://tinyurl.com/j3fvfz2)

> Regarding the first departure in May, I believe two of the ladies who were with us in Borneo have booked it. Hadn't better say who they are, had I.

I forget who exactly was on the first Borneo trip, but I think I am in e-mail correspondence with one of these . . .

> Now regarding Everest Base Camp . . . the flights may be available.

Er . . . yes, I think they are - but I think I would rather have my feet firmly planted on the ground at Everest base Camp - and the view is supposed to be better than from the Nepal side. I doubt if your helicopter landed at EBC as this is across the border in Tibet. The alternative trip to Tibet which I am considering ends up with a week in Nepal, so I may end up comparing the two views - but this probably depends on whether the road border into Nepal has been opened again. If not, I'll  see you in Tibet!

Best wishes

Jim

Reading through Jim's post with regard to altitude sickness in Tibet, I went there in 2015 with JY on the Land of the Dragon & Tibet trip.

That holiday was designed to gradually acclimatize us on the way through Southern China by moving to slightly higher locations as we went along.  Even so while we were in Tibet two of our party (there were 8 of us) did succumb to altitude sickness and missed a day out, but they were o.k. after rest.   I'm not sure whether they had any medication of any sort.  I bought herbal medication for mountain sickness while in Southern China but if you were worried you could always ask the travel nurse at your G.P.s , it's always best to be on the safe side and have something with you just in case.

Like you I have also been to Peru and Nepal and out of the three Tibet is my favourite, followed very closely I must say by Nepal and then Peru.  I'm thinking of revisiting Tibet in 2018, hopefully the trip will still be running then.

Happy holidays

Avocet

Thank you so much for all that detailed information, I will check those links when I have done this.

I have seen some Naxi people on a TV documentary (ages ago and can't remember which programme) and was fascinated by their culture so would like to see them on a future tour.

Many apologies as it seems I have remembered incorrectly about EBC. I certainly thought that the group who took the helicopter flight from Pohkara went to a base camp, so if it wasn't EBC could it have been Annapurna? If not, it doesn't really matter.

I am thinking that you hope to go to Nepal overland from Tibet. I went overland from India to Nepal, the border crossing which was  a bridge was only open for a few hours each day for coaches.It was very sad there the amount of Nepalese crossing into India with all their families and belongings with scraggy horses and carts was massive. No photography allowed. It happens everyday I was told, I thought Nepal would end up devoid of life, but the Tour Manager said most go back because they can't get work in India either. We stayed at Karnarli Tiger Tops in Bardia national park for a few days.

I hope that the overland route to Nepal that you require is open.

Thanks again for your advice

best wishes Di

Thank you for your response.

In the light of what you and Jim have said I will get some Diamox.

Good to know that Tibet was your favourite with Nepal and Peru coming second. am really looking forward to Tibet. There is one departure date in 2018 for this tour.

Best wishes

Di

Fantastic photos again. Thank you very much for sharing them. Have just viewed.

Didn't realize exactly how colourful China is. Yunnan has got to go straight on list to do.

I thought the debating monks would all be sitting, amazed!

Hong Kong photos interesting, but as I looked at them I was thinking of Singapore, which is my number one city. After S'pore I think I might be disappointed with Hong Kong!

All the best

Di