Before I start Mildred I know this subject has nothing to do with you.

I agree with everything that has already been said by others and the reasons for wanting to know how many are booked on a holiday, and I have a reason I would like to add.

I've been on quite a few JY holidays since 2005, mostly long haul interspersed with short haul, where possible I have taken two holidays a year and have enjoyed all of them up until, that is, the time before my last but one holiday.

I booked a long haul holiday with the knowledge that numbers were low, but that didn't bother me as it was to a country I had wanted to go to for as long as I can remember.  Now, I've been on enough JY holidays to know there's always a chance there will be at least one person, or if you are unlucky maybe two, you don't get on with, you just try to avoid them as much as possible, the trouble is, with a smallish group, there is very little you can do to avoid any conflict of personalities and on this occasion, without going into detail,  we unfortunately had upsets and stress in the group, mealtimes always seemed to be the worst.

To say I was traumatized by all that went on would be way over the top, but it was enough to put me off booking a holiday I was going to book for later in that year and I've only had a short European holiday this year, which again was a smallish group but everyone got on well with no problems. 

After paying nearly £5,000 for a holiday, which was nowhere as enjoyable as it should have been, I vowed I would never take another long haul without checking there was a reasonable number in the group first, now we are told JY are no longer going to divulge booking numbers.  I want to go long haul again next year but I shall certainly be looking at holidays very, very carefully in future.

Also, like some of the others, a large group holiday is a no no for me, I did one to USA once, never again!

I hope those who took this decision are taking note of all the comments made, I don't suppose they care anyway as long as the money keeps coming in, but at least they know how their customers feel about it. 

Kind regards

Avocet

P.S.  Have we had a truthful explanation yet or have I overlooked it?

Bob

I understand that you are very disappointed and angry with this sudden change and I am sorry about that but all I can tell you at this time is that there has been a change of policy.

Kind Regards,

Mildred.

The points made above by Di and Tim reflect perfectly how I feel about this.  Come on JY, it's not too late - reverse this counterproductive policy change before more damage is done!  There have been over 50 posts on this topic over the last two days which shows the depth of feeling.  JY constantly state how they prioritise customer care - prove that you mean this and please take swift action.

Bob

Good Morning Bob,

I have said all I know regarding this matter but I can assure you that your feedback is being monitored by the larger Just You team.

Kind Regards,

Mildred.

P.S. When you book a flight independently you don't expect the airline to tell you how many seats they have left, do you?

ceetee replied:

Just for info - a travel insurance policy does not usually cover the fact that the tour operator has cancelled a holiday due to lack of commercial viability therefore if you independently book connecting flights/hotels, the insurer will not necessarily pay a claim (depends on your insurer and your policy, but I know because I had this situation happen a few years ago and they did not pay my claim for the flights - if you have just assumed you're covered, it's worth checking your own policy).  If you book your connecting flight via Just You then it would be in their T's & C's whether you got reimbursed if you chose the Refund option upon cancellation.  If you choose the 'Alternative Holiday' option, then you could be doubling the connecting flight costs if the dates/times don't tie in with the cancelled trip & you don't get your claim paid.  Whilst I totally take your point about everyone waiting for everyone else to book, some of us are in a different situation with getting to London so I will always wait for the trip's green light before booking.

Caroline

Can open, worms everywhere!!! I've had two fairly inconclusive telephone conversations with people at Saga who said that if I hadn't used my train ticket and the hotel at Gatwick I would 'probably' be covered and that if JY didn't cough up (my words, not theirs) they would, over my excess. I reckon JY should pay if they cancel, but that's just my opinion.

This thread has made me wonder how much in each others' pockets we are going to be. I am quite a solitary person, but I never feel alone and it hadn't occurred to me that I would be going on holiday with a bunch of strangers - I just thought I was taking advantage of a good deal! I'm off to buy some conspicuous headphones now 😉

Good Morning Avocet,

I understand that you are very disappointed and angry with this sudden change and I am sorry about that but all I can tell you at this time is that there has been a change of policy.

Kind Regards,

Mildred.

Hello again Mildred

JY are not very forthcoming with an explanation are they?  I wonder how long it will be before they are wanting us all to vote for them in the British Travel Awards, they will expect us to be on their side then. Wonder what they would say if nobody bothered to vote!  Keeping customers doesn't seem to be a high point at the moment.

Kind regards

Avocet

The points made above by Di and Tim reflect perfectly how I feel about this.  Come on JY, it's not too late - reverse this counterproductive policy change before more damage is done!  There have been over 50 posts on this topic over the last two days which shows the depth of feeling.  JY constantly state how they prioritise customer care - prove that you mean this and please take swift action.

Bob

Nicely put, short and to the point. Do it!

I agree with just about everything that has been written (except the purchase of conspicuous headphones)

> I hope those who took this decision are taking note of all the comments made, I don't suppose they care anyway as long as the money keeps coming in, but at least they know how their customers feel about it.

However, I suspect that Avocet is right.

I came upon these threads late and have just read them with great interest (and not a little cynicism). Since we now have a classic "tour de table" among regular Forum contributors, I thought I had better add my voice in support.

This is clearly a reduction in customer service for no obviously convincing reason. I am relaxed about age ranges and M/F ratios but definitely not about maximum group sizes for all the reasons already stated, and I too would not wish to join a group with more than 30 participants - pity really, as I quite fancy the NZ one - and I have already ruled out trips to the USA by several tour operators for the same reason. I also find it convenient to be able to monitor the number of places sold/remaining for a given tour, when it gets the "green light" and when it is sold out (all bar the last (no chance of that!) freely provided for a small-group TS tour next month by a very helpful operative).

One question: if, as someone has suggested, JY would like to retain the option to increase a tour group's size if a particular tour is selling well, would the labels "maximum group size", "places remaining" and "sold out" have a definite meaning?

If (senior) management at whatever level really is monitoring this feedback (and, if they have already made up their collective mind, why should they bother?) then this may be a "toe in the water" job: put an announcement on the Forum and see what comes back. Well, now they know.

If this is usual management procedure (senior management makes  "policy" decision - middle management/HR/customer-facing staff told to go away and implement - customer dissatisfaction - much moaning which gradually dies away - new unacceptable situation becomes the status quo: we have all been there?) then what would make them change their mind? Presumably only a reduction in bookings when customers vote with their feet? I imagine that they have taken a long, hard look at the Forum and seen the almost fanatically loyal following, and believe that this will not diminish. It will be interesting to see.

Presumably this "policy" decision has been taken on commercial grounds (why else?) in view of the perceived threat to the business posed by the other high-quality exclusively solo travel company (small but steadily growing) and the ever-increasing number of large (and good) companies which are now targeting the solo travel market (especially among retired persons with both time and money), which is becoming an important target demographic.

But, O Management, these companies regularly disclose some combination of such parameters as 'group size'/whether a group is 'small' or not, 'number of places remaining' and 'sold out': they do not appear to suffer thereby, and show no signs of ending the practice, so why should JY and TS consider themselves to be disadvantaged?

Management may regard the views of what they may see as a small sample of their customer base, while the remainder (non Forum users) couldn't care less - but this may prove to be a dangerous assumption, as it could be any of their customers who provide the valuable free advertising: I have been on several holidays with other companies which also included people who had travelled with JY, seldom posted on this Forum, and who were always ready to tell me of their experiences, as a result of which I have a short list of JY holidays which have come with definite and reliable recommendations: real dissatisfaction among JY clients, however loyal, will inevitably colour the impression they give of JY as a travel company in future.

Finally, I wonder what "management" really think of this Forum? I assume it was a local initiative of JY staff  as it does not cover TS? At least we have a forum, unlike most other travel companies - and we had the announcement - so thanks to Julia for that! Presumably TS customers will only find out when they go to make a booking . . .

Jim

P.S. When you book a flight independently you don't expect the airline to tell you how many seats they have left, do you?

ceetee replied:

Just for info - a travel insurance policy does not usually cover the fact that the tour operator has cancelled a holiday due to lack of commercial viability therefore if you independently book connecting flights/hotels, the insurer will not necessarily pay a claim (depends on your insurer and your policy, but I know because I had this situation happen a few years ago and they did not pay my claim for the flights - if you have just assumed you're covered, it's worth checking your own policy).  If you book your connecting flight via Just You then it would be in their T's & C's whether you got reimbursed if you chose the Refund option upon cancellation.  If you choose the 'Alternative Holiday' option, then you could be doubling the connecting flight costs if the dates/times don't tie in with the cancelled trip & you don't get your claim paid.  Whilst I totally take your point about everyone waiting for everyone else to book, some of us are in a different situation with getting to London so I will always wait for the trip's green light before booking.

Caroline

Can open, worms everywhere!!! I've had two fairly inconclusive telephone conversations with people at Saga who said that if I hadn't used my train ticket and the hotel at Gatwick I would 'probably' be covered and that if JY didn't cough up (my words, not theirs) they would, over my excess. I reckon JY should pay if they cancel, but that's just my opinion.

This thread has made me wonder how much in each others' pockets we are going to be. I am quite a solitary person, but I never feel alone and it hadn't occurred to me that I would be going on holiday with a bunch of strangers - I just thought I was taking advantage of a good deal! I'm off to buy some conspicuous headphones now ;-)

I'm sure people will be very happy to leave you to do  exactly what you want to do, you don't have to mix with a 'bunch of strangers' if you don't want to.  On JY holidays your are not forced to join in anything apart from moving from A to B if your are on a touring holiday.  Nobody is in each others pockets, it's down to each individual as to whether they want to socialize or not.

Enjoy your holiday

Avocet

I have also suggested that he reads all the comments on this community board regarding this very unpopular decision.

I will update you when I get a response.

Eve

As you know, earlier this week, a change in corporate policy meant that we were no longer able to share with you group sizes and male/female ratios. The reason behind this, in short, is that it is commercially sensitive information and should never really have been given out. We knew that these details helped some of you to make a decision, give you an idea of who you’d be travelling with, and start planning other elements of your holiday. What we hadn’t realised is how much some of this information you relied on for your decision and in some cases, the expectation and enjoyment in the lead up to your holiday.

As promised, we have monitored your comments posted here on the community and I am delighted to announce that this policy has been reversed. As such, we will continue to share the finer details of your holiday.

I promise you that we are as passionate about your holidays as you are, we want to make sure that you get the experience of a lifetime when you travel with us, and that experience starts from when you first contact us, whether here on the community, online or picking up the phone and talking to us. Whilst we have our reservations about sharing this information, you are our customers, and you come first.

I've just read your post and I'm delighted!  (I had put up another angry post a few minutes ago and that post can now be scrapped!)

Well done to the management at JY for listening to us and taking action.  Now we can look forward to planning our holidays again!

Best wishes,

Bob

Here at JYHQ we say that we listen to our customers and value your comments and feedback. Sometimes actions speak louder than words….

As you know, earlier this week, a change in corporate policy meant that we were no longer able to share with you group sizes and male/female ratios. The reason behind this, in short, is that it is commercially sensitive information and should never really have been given out. We knew that these details helped some of you to make a decision, give you an idea of who you’d be travelling with, and start planning other elements of your holiday.  What we hadn’t realised is how much some of this information you relied on for your decision and in some cases, the expectation and enjoyment in the lead up to your holiday.

As promised, we have monitored your comments posted here on the community and I am delighted to announce that this policy has been reversed. As such, we will continue to share the finer details of your holiday.

I promise you that we are as passionate about your holidays as you are, we want to make sure that you get the experience of a lifetime when you travel with us, and that experience starts from when you first contact us, whether here on the community, online or picking up the phone and talking to us. Whilst we have our reservations about sharing this information, you are our customers, and you come first.

Hi Julia

This great news and it shows that JY have listened to there customers.

Again great news

Steve

Thank you for listening to us all, I am just sad it had to gather the momentum that it did, to get this policy change overturned.

May I suggest that if there is a next time the people who make these sort of decisions, give a clear concise reason why something has been done/changed, then we the customer might be able to understand it more.

I hope now that this subject can be put to bed.

Have a good weekend

Cindy

Kind regards

Avocet

         Glad decision about not saying group size has been reversed. A few months ago the decision was made not to send final info by post because a few had said they wanted it by Email. Has Gerald Ratner joined the management.

Regards all

TonyW

:D 😃 😃

As I have recently got my work schedule for the 12 months to end Jan 2018, and am planning my holidays, have now dug out the JY brochures from the rubbish where they was consigned. 

TonyW - I had the same issue re final information - yep, does seem as if Gerald Ratner is now in charge.

Hi Julia,

I've just read your post and I'm delighted!  (I had put up another angry post a few minutes ago and that post can now be scrapped!)

Well done to the management at JY for listening to us and taking action.  Now we can look forward to planning our holidays again!

Best wishes,

Bob

Hello Julia

Good news!

My post of this afternoon is now also redundant and can just be deleted - although I would like to reiterate my one positive remark that, unlike TS and elsewhere, at least we do have a forum in which the unwelcome news could be posted, publicly discussed, and promptly acted upon. There is a lot to be said for this very valuable facility, and for the sterling efforts of you and your colleagues to keep it functioning.

Jim